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Subject: CBGXtra Contest: The Two-Faced BIG BOY Challenge! | Author | Messages | 
John Jackson Miller
Posts: 1010
 | Posted: 7/15/2005 8:13:05 PM | If you’ve read my “Variants Without the Guilt” column in CBG #1609, you know what this is about: Confirming the existence of all the variant Adventures of the Big Boy promotional comics from the first 175 issues of the series.
For years, artists drew two different versions of the main character in the comics -- conforming to the fact that while the many franchisees in the Big Boy chain used the same name and promotional items, the design of the character in some chains used a different-looking mascot. (Read more about it in the “Big Boy Primer” thread here!)
It is known that the “Eastern” or “blond” Big Boy appeared in variants at least until #152 in December 1969; what isn’t known for certain is whether two versions of each issue exist -- or when the “blond” version ends. That’s what the CBGXtra.com Two-Faced Big Boy Challenge is about!
Below is the checklist of the variants from #1-175 that I have either in my possession, have a scan for, or have other confirmation of. The first eight people who post scans of at least three copies of either kind I haven’t yet seen will receive from me an Eastern variant of Big Boy #119, from 1967.
As they’re posted, I’ll be revising the checklist -- so once someone else posts a copy not on my checklist, posting it again yourself won’t count toward the reward. But thee are at least 120 potential Eastern variants I haven’t seen -- and another 121 Western (or “traditional look”) issues I haven’t got scans of, so there’s a few to choose from. (If we wind up with more than eight people posting at least three unseen copies, we’ll try to find something nice for the rest of you. I’m lucky to have this many spares of #119!)
Remember, this is the WEBS Advertising Group series with issues coming out from 1956-1970 -- not the Paragon series that was done for Shoney’s in the late 1970s and early 1980s. I’m missing some scans of those, too, but they’re not part of this search.
When you post your images -- JPGs, please -- any info you can also supply on which chain the cover came from will help. Just look on the back. You might also list the states where that chain was active.
Here’s the list (updated: issues posted to CBGXtra in italics):
EASTERN copies
(Big Boy is a strawberry blond and wears a chef’s hat with his name on it; his suit is striped; his face is less rounded)
Distributed in these chains, among others (?): Azar’s, Frisch’s
Confirmed (80 of a possible 175):
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9
10, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19
20, 21, 23, 25, 26
30, 31, 36, 37, 38, 39
41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 48
50, 54, 57
60, 62, 68, 69
71, 72, 76, 77,78
81, 82, 85, 86, 87, 89
92, 94
101, 102, 106
110, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 119
122, 123, 124, 126
130, 131, 133, 135, 136, 137, 138
140, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150
152
WESTERN copies
(The “traditional” Big Boy; he’s got dark hair, is a bit plumper, wears a checkered suit, and no hat.)
Distributed in these chains, among others: Elby’s, Kip’s, Marc’s
Update: ALL Western copies now confirmed, from Heritage's File Copy Auction
That’s the list. See below for the differences in the characters -- from #69’s infinity cover, an issue signed inside by “Brod.” (Sol Brodsky? Who knows?) I’m also posting what the Eastern #119s I’ve got so folks can see what they look like.
Good hunting!
--John Jackson Miller
Best,
John Jackson Miller
Comics & Fiction at Faraway Press
Comics circulation resarch at The Comics Chronicles
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| Posted: 7/21/2005 11:38:44 PM | I saw the latest issue of the CBG with the Big Boy article and I am surprise there wasn't mentioned the discussions about Big Boy variants over on the Grand Comic-Book Database (GCD), so...here I am to bring those here! :-)
It is good to see discussion about the variant issue search for Big Boy, something close to my heart since almost all Big Boy covers from the GCD came from me. Now I am going to post all that I have that John doesn't list. Not all of them were good enough to be in the GCD (eBay pics in many cases) but I'll post them there anyway for the sake of historical accuracy.
I am also going to post here the story of the Big Boy comics as I know it to be so far, for your entertainment pleasure. Since the Big Boy corporation is headquartered not too far from where I live, one day I'll pay them a visit to see if they kept any information about the comic book giveaways.
my best
-Ray Bottorff Jr
Adventures of Big Boy #1-2 East (Timely/Webs)
Adventures of Big Boy #1-2 West (Timely/Webs)
---Franchise co-branding variations began right from beginning. East version=Big Boy character redrawn, red hair, striped pants, cook's hat. West version=original version of Big Boy character with black hair, checkered pants. No hat.
Adventures of the Big Boy #3-12 East (Timely/Webs)
Adventures of the Big Boy #3-12 West (Timely/Webs)
Adventures of the Big Boy #13 - 152? East known (Webs)
Adventures of the Big Boy #13 - 152? West known (Webs)
---Unknown: What all variations were there? When did East/West versions stop (probably between #152 and 159,--known Frisch Big Boy version #152 has East coast version character, by 159 had Brown-haired West coast version)? Issue #157 has a completely covered up Big Boy on cover, but copyright notice is the same as what appeared on later issues. Previously, West Coast version had copyright info on Wian. East Coast had copyright info on Frisch. Issue #159 is known to have the "Brown-haired" Big Boy. Brown-haired Big Boy doesn't seem to have started until end of East Coast version.
Known possible franchise co-branded variations (printed with franchise logo [or not] and region sold):
Abdow’s (Known printed-Massachuetts, Connecticut)
Azar's (Known printed-Colorado, N. Indiana)
Bob's (Known printed-Arizona, California, Delaware, E. Pennsylvania, Hawaii, New Jersey, Southeast U.S. after Shoney's left)
Eat 'n Park (Printed as "Your Favorite Family Restaurants?"-Pittsburgh-area 1950s)
Elby's (Known printed-E. Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia)
Elias Brothers (Known printed-Michigan, N.W. Ohio, Ontario)
Franklin’s (Exists? Printed as "Your Favorite Family Restaurants" issue #260 onward?-location unknown)
Frisch’s (Known printed-Kentucky, N. Tennessee, S. Indiana, S. Ohio)
JB's (Known printed-Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Utah, Wyoming)
Kip's (Known printed-Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas)
Lendy’s Yoda's (Hand stamped-Virginia, pre-1961 was part of Shoney's)
Manner’s (Known printed-N.E. Ohio)
Marc’s (Known printed-Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin)
McDowell's (Printed as "Your Favorite Family Restaurants" issue #260 onward?-South Dakota)
Shoneys (Known printed-Southeast U.S.: North Carolina, South Carolina, S. Tennessee, Virginia)
TJ's (Known printed-New York)
Top's Drive (Known printed at least early-Illinois [used Big Boy food but not Big Boy name])
VIP’s (Printed as "Your Favorite Family Restaurants" issue #260 onward?-Washington, New Mexico)
Known west: Abdow's; Bob's; Azar's; Elias Brother's; JB's; Kips; Lendy's; Shoney's; Tops.
Known East: Azar's (as of 1962); Frisch's; Manners.
Lendy's co-branding version seems to be blank where resturaunt info was printed and hand-stamped with Lakeside Yoda's (Lendy's) stamp. Implies possible blank back cover variations where co-branding does not exist for some locations or use of "Your Favorite Family Restaurants" instead?
Adventures of the Big Boy #153?-259 (Webs)
---Unknown: When did EAST & WEST versions stop? What was the last issue of the Azar's, JB's, & Shoney's co-branding variations (sometime in 1976)?
Adventures of Big Boy #1-76? (Paragon Productions)
---Known co-branding variations: Azar's; JB's; Shoney's. Issue #76 known to exist. 76 known issues. Mostly known as Adventures of Shoney's Big Boy as the other regional versions are much harder to find.
Shoney's Fun and Adventure Magazine (#1-10?) (Shoney's Incorporated)
---Comic or activity book? Issue #10 known to exist.
Adventures of Big Boy #260-299 (Webs)
---Unknown: Co-branding started to appear on the front cover. There is a generic co-branding entitled: "Your Favorite Family Restaurants." Did this appear before on back cover as co-branding in previous issues, or were the are left blank in issues #259 and before? Which franchises used this generic co-brand?
Adventures of the Big Boy #300-466 (Webs)
---Unknown: Sometime between issues #374 & 379, the co-branding variations stopped (at least for Elias Brothers) and became just a generic comic for entire chain? Towards end, back page becomes a menu, possible different franchises may have had different menus. "EL-US" code on back on menu might refer to Elias Brothers menu variant.
Big Boy (#467-470) (YOE! Studio)
---No co-branding variations. Craig Yoe reports that some early issues had menu differences, some had coloring pages and others did not. Unknown which issues had what. "EL-US" code on back on menu might refer to Elias Brothers menu variant. 6 week publishing schedule. Indicia title doesn't act like an indicia title, "The Big Boy Comic/Magazine Big Wigs:", it acts more like a creator credits list. So title comes from the cover.
Big Boy Magazine (#471-Present, currently at #515) (YOE! Studio)
---No co-branding variations. Craig Yoe reports that some early issues had menu differences, some had coloring pages and others did not. Unknown which issues had what. "EL-US" code on back on menu might refer to Elias Brothers menu variant. 6 week publishing schedule. Indicia title doesn't act like an indicia title, "The Big Boy Magazine Top Dogs:" or "The Big Boy Magazine Crew:", it acts more like a creator credits list. So title comes from the cover.
This history below came from a web site I can no longer find. It is strictly copyrighted the original author and would love to credit him/her once I know who they are:
MORE BIG BOY HISTORY THAN YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW
California chain Bob's Big Boy started as Bob's Pantry in 1936 when Big Boy founder Bob Wian bought a local Glendale restaurant. Wian developed a signature double-decker hamburger (the Big Boy) and a Big Boy statue with wavy hair that eventually became an icon to many restaurant goers. Wian turned to franchising sometime in or the 1940s, and unlike chains like McDonald's, Wian did not require strict uniformity among franchisees. Outside of California, Big Boy restaurants could go by their franchise owner's name, as some restaurants were called everything from Kip's Big Boy to Azar's Big Boy to Frisch's Big Boy. There were also franchises such as Tops Drive In that did not even use the Big Boy name, but did serve the Big Boy sandwich and used the image of Big Boy for advertising.
Eventually, the Marriott company bought the franchise business in 1967; and, in the late 1980s, many restaurants in Southern California were sold off and became Coco's or Carrows. Marriott sold Big Boy to the Elias brothers from Michigan in 1987, who then sold the bankrupt chain in 2000 to Robert Ligget. The chain, now based in Michigan and called Big Boy Restaurants International, has 160 restaurants, and according to CEO Tony Michaels, has developed a new store-design that will spearhead a re-introduction foray into Southern California.
In 1946 Dave Frisch of Cincinnatti, Ohio purchased Big Boy franchise rights from Bob Wian of Glendale, California, the originator of the Big Boy double decker sandwich and the Big Boy chain of restaurants. Dave did make one change to the sandwich - he used tartar sauce instead of thousand island dressing on the sandwich. This difference between the Frisch's Big Boy sandwich and all the other Big Boy sandwiches continues to this day. Frisch opened other Big Boys in northern Kentucky and southeastern Indiana, then began selling franchises for Frisch's Big Boy, which his agreement with Mr Wian allowed. There are over 100 Frisch's Big Boy restaurants now covering much of Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana, and they no longer have any connection to Big Boy Restaurants International.
In 1951 Alex Schoenbaum purchased Big Boy franchise rights for the southeastern states, which meant that not only could he open his own Big Boy restaurants, he could sell franchises to others in the southeast, and so the Shoney's Big Boys expanded. In 1986 he dropped Big Boy, becoming instead just Shoney's Restaurants. He also began expanding outside the southeast. There are now over 300 Shoney's Restaurants, which have no connection with Big Boy.
In 1952, brothers Louis, Fred and John became franchisees and changed their diners to Elias Brothers Big Boy Restaurants -- featuring the double-decker hamburger, the Slim Jim, and the immortal chubby kid with a curl in his hair. They later (1987) purchased the base franchise rights from Marriott and during the period in which they owned these rights, bought out the Elby’s Big Boy restaurants in West Virginia, eastern Ohio, and western Pennslyvania.
There were several franchise owners who put their name on the Big Boy Restaurants they operated. Already mentioned are Kip’s, Azar’s, Frisch’s, Shoney’s, Elias Brothers, and Elby’s – others are Abdow’s, Franklin’s, JB’s, Lendy’s, Manner’s, Marc’s, and VIP’s. I very much doubt that this list is complete.
**postscript: from me, Ray-- In an eerie coincidence to later big business debacles like Enron, by the mid-1990s Elias Brother's had seriously over extended themselves in buying other franchises and had to declate bankruptcy. Hundreds of restaurants in locations for decades closed down, especially old Bob's Big Boy's in California. Completely reorganized when out of bankruptcy, the company is now known as just Big Boy Restaurants. It seems around this time, franchisee Frisch's continued under Big Boy banner, but openly states it no longer has affliation with the Big Boy corporation.
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| Posted: 7/21/2005 11:42:58 PM | More West
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| Posted: 7/21/2005 11:47:13 PM | More west
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| Posted: 7/21/2005 11:49:14 PM | more west
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| Posted: 7/21/2005 11:54:43 PM | Winding down better west scans...
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| Posted: 7/21/2005 11:58:07 PM | Based on the copyright notice, my gut tells me this is a west coast version...not that one can tell by the cover!...
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:12:17 AM | Now for some East scans...
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:14:46 AM | More East
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:22:00 AM | More East
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:31:40 AM | This cover John includes as a possible part of the West version. To me, the starting of the Brown-haired Big Boy marks the end of East/West variations...but here i is for completion sake...
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:36:40 AM | Working backwards I am beginning to post the really lousy scans that don't past the GCD-muster. Rife with bad, out-of-focus, off-centered, and eBay watermarked images--they none-the-less document these issues existence.
So starting with the Brown-haired Big Boy within John's list...
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:37:59 AM | Some more Eastern scans...
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:40:38 AM | In case the last scans were not clear on issue #, they were East 15, 89, 106. The next are 114 & 138 east
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:49:04 AM | I dawned on me, I did list all the issue number previously. they are in order:
West: 19, 47, 54, 57, 78 (posted in error, i meant to post #76, see below), 96, 126, 127, 128, 132, 133, 134, 136, 143, 147, & maybe West #157
East: 20, 23, 25, 26, 41, 43, 85, 86, & 140.
And Brown haired #170
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:54:18 AM | Moving on to questionable scans, West style here is #7, 36, & 97...
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:57:41 AM | Here is west #98, 99 & 146
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:58:41 AM | And here is brown-haired big boy #162
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John Jackson Miller
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:59:14 AM | Awesome, Ray! I'll make the changes to the checklist at top as soon as you're done!
I was pretty sure you had some more and would have dropped you a line, but figured this would be more fun (and educational at the same time for folks). I had looked at GCD, but found the listing a little confusing -- the title seemed to be in several times. Were there multiple posts of it, or was I missing something?
This is great stuff -- keep 'eem coming!
--John Jackson Miller
Best,
John Jackson Miller
Comics & Fiction at Faraway Press
Comics circulation resarch at The Comics Chronicles
Webcomic: Sword & Sarcasm | CArchivist
Posts: 124
| Posted: 7/22/2005 1:06:43 AM | So the above final tally is as follows:
In order as posted:
West: 19, 47, 54, 57, 78, 96, 126, 127, 128, 132, 133, 134, 136, 143, 147, & #157
East: 20, 23, 25, 26, 41, 43, 85, 86, & 140
Brown haired #170, 159, 172, 174
East: 15, 89, 106, 114, & 138
West #76, 7, 36, 97, 98, 99 146
Brown haired #162
Except for #78, that makes 42 covers confirmed not previously on John's list.
John, hope all that helps!
my best
-Ray
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 1:16:12 AM | <
I was pretty sure you had some more and would have dropped you a line, but figured this would be more fun (and educational at the same time for folks). I had looked at GCD, but found the listing a little confusing -- the title seemed to be in several times. Were there multiple posts of it, or was I missing something?
This is great stuff -- keep 'em coming!
--John Jackson Miller>>
Hi John,
The title is listed at breaks in the run or variations in the cover title (notice the variations in cover title, since the variations can only be determined by cover since these books had no indicia).
Adventures of Big Boy, The #1-2 (east & west, Marvel/Timely/Web)
Adventures of the Big Boy #3-12 (east & west, Marvel/Timely/Web)
Adventures of the Big Boy #13-162 (east & west), #163-259, #300-466 (Webs)
Adventures of Big Boy #260-299 (Webs)
Big Boy #467-470 (YOE Studios!)
Big Boy Magazine #471-515 (YOE Studios!)
Adventures of Big Boy #1-76 (Paragon/Shoney's/JB's)
my best
-Ray
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John Jackson Miller
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 11:07:21 AM | Aha! Our first re-used cover in the series: #132 reuses #94, as seen below.
(And it seems to come at the end of a stretch of the most amateurish cover art of the run -- look there at #126-128. An execution cover on #127?!?!?)
#133 looks original, but we'll have to see more covers to be sure.
--John Jackson Miller
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John Jackson Miller
Comics & Fiction at Faraway Press
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John Jackson Miller
Posts: 1010
| Posted: 7/22/2005 11:36:49 AM | And #159 and #20, both of which you posted higher above, is not a case of reprinted art but actually a swipe from the series itself -- look at how Nugget and some of the other elements have been moved around!
--John Jackson Miller
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John Jackson Miller
Comics & Fiction at Faraway Press
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John Jackson Miller
Posts: 1010
| Posted: 7/22/2005 12:32:22 PM | And I was in error on listing #76 East in saying that I had it; looks like we don't. So I'm taking that one off the board.
From the looks of the geographical notes you've posted, East/West may not be the appropriate way to name these. Do you think "Frisch" may wind up being the right suffix? Blond copies tend to have the copyright in Frisch's name, and I think even a blond Azar's copy I saw was copyrighted by Frisch's -- I'd have to look.
--John Jackson Miller
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John Jackson Miller
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| Posted: 7/22/2005 11:52:42 PM | <
From the looks of the geographical notes you've posted, East/West may not be the appropriate way to name these. Do you think "Frisch" may wind up being the right suffix? Blond copies tend to have the copyright in Frisch's name, and I think even a blond Azar's copy I saw was copyrighted by Frisch's -- I'd have to look.
--John Jackson Miller>>
The red-haired Big Boy was created by Frisch independently from the black-haired Bob's Big Boy we are all familiar with. I believe they hold the copyright to it until this day. It is odd Manner's and early Azar's used it and not places like TJ's, JB's or Shoney's which were just as "east". Perhaps East and West should only refer to coasts of origin of the Big Boy character, west for the one originated by Bob's, East for Frisch's.
my best
-Ray
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| Posted: 7/23/2005 12:01:24 AM | To add to list of reused covers. Issue #140 [East] is reused with issue #203.
http://www.comics.org/covers.lasso?SeriesID=11780
Issue #130 [West] from above represents a repeated Christmas theme used often.
Issue #237 & #249 share a common New Year's theme too.
I would imagine Web though that if they spaced out their reusing of covers over a couple of years, they will have a whole new generation to appeal too without them knowing of the duplication. They probably had no clue about people like us poping up 30 years later.
my best
-Ray
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John Jackson Miller
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| Posted: 7/23/2005 1:20:15 AM | I had seen some reused gags before, but the above was the first reused cover I'd seen.
The Azar's copy of #69 I have has the Frisch's copyright, as we'd expect -- except on the inside, where the copyright is the same as the Western edition -- Robert C. Wian Enterprises. Maybe they just didn't bother changing the indicias.
By the way, e-mail me your mailing address, Ray -- you've definitely earned that first copy of #119! (And while the race for the Standard Catalog copy is still on, it'll take a heavy-duty Big Boy completist to outpace you...) :-)
--John Jackson Miller
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John Jackson Miller
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| Posted: 7/23/2005 1:31:43 AM | There is always Bud Plant, who owns the Manfred Bernhardt bound copy of the first 15 issues or so... :-)
my best
-Ray
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| Posted: 7/23/2005 1:33:32 AM | Sorry, meant Steve Geppi owns that...
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| Posted: 8/7/2005 12:44:57 AM | Got some new cover scans...but a quick note on my previous entry on the Big Boy series...
Adventures of Big Boy by Paragon and Adventures of Shoney's Big Boy by Shoney's is the same series. JB's and Azar's also co-branded on this series which ran for at least 76 issues.
and now, west covers for issues #116 & 123
my best
-Ray
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| Posted: 8/27/2005 12:04:25 AM | Continuing what seems to be just John & I's lonely quest to clarify Big Boy comic book editions, I wanted to add another "reused" cover (courtesy this crappy scan from an eBay auction). This one is issue #186 and it reuses the cover for issue #106. Earlier you will see a cover for an Eastern version of #106. I would love to see a Western version of that same #.
That way we can see red-haired Eastern, black-haired Western, and brown-haired amalgam version all with the same cover...more or less.
A little out of the scope of what John is looking for, but interesting none-the-less.
my best
-Ray
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John Jackson Miller
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| Posted: 8/27/2005 4:10:01 PM | >>Continuing what seems to be just John & I's lonely quest
Not entirely surprised -- you and I had already pretty much turned up everything that was visible anywhere online.
This is to be permanent ongoing drive -- the offer for the bonus issue will be good for as long as I have them -- and I'll open it up now to just single examples as opposed to at least three examples.
I'll try to get your copy out this week.
--John Jackson Miller
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John Jackson Miller
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Chuck Fiala
Posts: 187
| Posted: 8/27/2005 6:45:17 PM | John, don't think you're alone in the interest of this series, I just never lived all that close to a Big Boy restaurant. The last time I was in one, was on the east coast about 6 years ago, and the waitress had never heard of the comic book when I asked her for one.
I really like the chain and the character. I think it's time for the first year by Stan Lee to be collected into a Marvel Masterworks volume.
Seriously, I do think they could make some money by merchandizing the character outside of their restaurants for nostalgia appeal.
Best,
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John Jackson Miller
Posts: 1010
| Posted: 8/27/2005 10:13:10 PM | Actually, the character is heavily merchandised -- and at least some of that is outside the restaurants. I think we publish some book or other that includes a lot of the stuff -- not just Bib Boy, but also Ronald McDonald and other restaurant memorabilia.
Speaking of which, the Ronald McDonald comic book is a really odd duck on its own. Brent collects what little there was of that series, I believe...
--John Jackson Miller
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John Jackson Miller
Comics & Fiction at Faraway Press
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Brent Frankenhoff
Posts: 4201
| Posted: 8/28/2005 12:16:58 PM | I don't know if I'd say I "collect" Ronald McDonald Comics. I have one example in my collection, possibly given to me by my friendly neighborhood pharmacist back in the day. He often gave kids slower-moving merchandise, which would explain the handful of Presidential trading cards in another random box at my house.
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